Legislature(2003 - 2004)

03/17/2004 01:36 PM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                              MINUTES                                                                                         
                     SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                 
                          March 17, 2004                                                                                      
                              1:36 PM                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPES                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SFC-04 # 46,  Side A                                                                                                            
SFC-04 # 46,  Side B                                                                                                            
SFC-04 # 47,  Side A                                                                                                            
SFC-04 # 47,  Side B                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Gary Wilken convened the meeting at approximately 1:36 PM.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lyda Green, Co-Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Gary Wilken, Co-Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Con Bunde, Vice-Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Ben  Stevens                                                                                                            
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
Senator Donny  Olson                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Also Attending: SENATOR RALPH SEEKINS; SENATOR BERT STEDMAN;                                                                  
SENATOR GARY STEVENS; SENATOR TOM WAGONER; and SENATOR JOHN COWDERY                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Attending via Teleconference: Statewide Public Testimony occurred                                                             
in the order reflected in the minutes.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CONFERENCE OF ALASKANS RESOLUTIONS                                                                                              
PUBLIC TESTIMONY                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The Committee heard Statewide testimony regarding the Conference of                                                             
Alaskans' resolutions. The Committee took no action.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                CONFERENCE OF ALASKANS RESOLUTIONS                                                                              
                         PUBLIC TESTIMONY                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
      As adopted by the Conference of Alaskans Feb. 12, 2004                                                                    
                              A RESOLUTION                                                                                      
     Expressing the sense of the conference that the state should                                                               
     maintain  a  prudent  balance  in  the  constitutional   budget                                                            
     reserve fund.                                                                                                              
     BE IT RESOLVED BY THE CONFERENCE OF ALASKANS:                                                                              
          WHEREAS the constitutional budget reserve fund was                                                                    
     established by an  amendment to the Alaska Constitution after a                                                            
     vote of the people held at the 1990 general election;                                                                      
          WHEREAS the constitutional budget reserve not only                                                                    
     provides a contingency  fund for the operations of the State of                                                            
     Alaska,  it is also  an integral component  of maintaining  the                                                            
     state's  credit  rating  and  that  of  the  local communities                                                             
     throughout the state; and                                                                                                  
          WHEREAS the state relies on the balance of the                                                                        
     constitutional budget  reserve fund to meet its financial needs                                                            
     from time to time.                                                                                                         
          NOW THEREFORE LET IT BE RESOLVED that the state should                                                                
     maintain  a  prudent  balance  in  the  constitutional   budget                                                            
     reserve fund.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
      As adopted by the Conference of Alaskans Feb. 12, 2004                                                                    
                              A RESOLUTION                                                                                      
     Expressing   the  sense  of  the  conference   whether  use  of                                                            
     distributions from  the Alaska Permanent Fund should be limited                                                            
     to five percent  of the market value of the fund  (POMV) as the                                                            
     Permanent Fund trustees have proposed.                                                                                     
     BE IT RESOLVED BY THE CONFERENCE OF ALASKANS:                                                                              
          WHEREAS the Conference of Alaskans believes that a                                                                    
     Permanent  Fund  dividend  should be  annually  distributed  to                                                            
     Alaskans;                                                                                                                  
          WHEREAS the percent of market value (POMV) distribution                                                               
     formula would  limit the amount that can be annually  withdrawn                                                            
     from the Alaska Permanent  Fund to no more than five percent of                                                            
     the market value of the fund (POMV);                                                                                       
          WHEREAS the board of trustees of the Alaska Permanent                                                                 
     Fund  believes  that  the  Permanent  Fund  is  not  adequately                                                            
     protected for the future;                                                                                                  
          WHEREAS the percent of market value (POMV) distribution                                                               
     formula  is expected  to maintain the  purchasing power  of the                                                            
     entire  Permanent Fund by retaining  in the fund enough  of the                                                            
     increase in value to protect against inflation; and                                                                        
          WHEREAS the percent of market value distribution formula                                                              
     is  expected to  allow future  generations  to benefit  equally                                                            
     from the Alaska Permanent Fund.                                                                                            
         NOW THEREFORE LET IT BE RESOLVED: The Legislature                                                                      
     should pass a resolution proposing a constitutional                                                                        
      amendment addressing percent of market value (POMV), as                                                                   
     recommended  by the Permanent  Fund trustees and present  it to                                                            
     the voters for ratification at the 2004 general election                                                                   
     that would change the method of distributing amounts from                                                                  
     the Alaska permanent fund so that distributions are limited                                                                
      to five percent of the market value (POMV) of the fund.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
      As adopted by the Conference of Alaskans Feb. 12, 2004                                                                    
                              A RESOLUTION                                                                                      
     Expressing the sense  of the conference that distributions from                                                            
     the  Alaska  Permanent Fund  for  permanent fund  dividends  be                                                            
     dedicated  in the constitution and that distributions  from the                                                            
     Alaska  Permanent  Fund for  other  public purposes  should  be                                                            
     determined annually by the legislature.                                                                                    
     BE IT RESOLVED BY THE CONFERENCE OF ALASKANS:                                                                              
          WHEREAS the Alaska Permanent Fund was established as an                                                               
     exception  to the  dedicated  fund prohibition  so that  enough                                                            
     revenue could  be segregated and protected to  provide a source                                                            
     of money to benefit present and future generations of                                                                      
     Alaskans;                                                                                                                  
          WHEREAS dedication of a part of the distributions from                                                                
     the  Alaska Permanent  Fund provides  a predictable and  stable                                                            
     means   to  finance  the  permanent   fund  dividend   for  the                                                            
     foreseeable future;                                                                                                        
          NOW THEREFORE LET IT BE RESOLVED: The Legislature should                                                              
     pass  a resolution  proposing  a constitutional  amendment  and                                                            
     present it  to the voters for ratification at  the 2004 general                                                            
     election  that would  protect the permanent  fund dividend  and                                                            
     ensure  that the dividend  would continue  to be paid  to state                                                            
     residents.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
      As adopted by the Conference of Alaskans Feb. 12, 2004                                                                    
                              A RESOLUTION                                                                                      
     Expressing  the  sense of  the conference  that a  part of  the                                                            
     income  of  the  Alaska  permanent  fund  should  be  used  for                                                            
     essential state services,  such as education, public protection                                                            
     and other necessary public services.                                                                                       
     BE IT RESOLVED BY THE CONFERENCE OF ALASKANS:                                                                              
          WHEREAS the earnings of the Alaska Permanent Fund exceed                                                              
     the amount  of revenue realized  by the state from oil  and gas                                                            
     taxation and royalties;                                                                                                    
          WHEREAS the fiscal crisis facing Alaska is a clear and                                                                
     present  danger to the adequate  provision of necessary  public                                                            
     services;                                                                                                                  
          WHEREAS Alaska must not impose self-inflicted harm; and                                                               
          WHEREAS Alaska's state spending is inadequate to meet                                                                 
     current  needs for  public  education, public  protection,  and                                                            
     many other necessary state services; and                                                                                   
          WHEREAS the conference believes that after the dividend                                                               
     is  protected a permanent  fund dividend  distributed,  and any                                                            
     remaining  funds  available   for  distribution  are  used  for                                                            
     essential  government  services,  additional  revenues will  be                                                            
     needed  to fully fund  and protect  those essential  government                                                            
     services.                                                                                                                  
          NOW THEREFORE LET IT BE RESOLVED: A portion of the                                                                    
     distribution  of  the percent  of market  value  (POMV) of  the                                                            
     Alaska  Permanent  Fund  should  be used  for  essential  state                                                            
     services,  such  as  education,  public  protection  and  other                                                            
     necessary  state  services.   However  this  recommendation  is                                                            
     subject to the following conditions:                                                                                       
          (1) Dividends must be paid out first from the amount                                                                  
     available   under   the   percent   of  market   value   (POMV)                                                            
     distribution  method, as recommended  by the board of  trustees                                                            
     of the Alaska  Permanent Fund, with the remainder  available to                                                            
     fund essential state services; and                                                                                         
          (2) The governor and legislature must take action to                                                                  
     balance  the state's revenues  and expenditures, including  but                                                            
     not limited  to consideration  of a personal income  tax, other                                                            
     broad-based taxes and other alternative sources of income.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This  was  the first  public  testimony  hearing  conducted  by  the                                                            
Committee regarding the Conference of Alaskans Resolutions.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken noted  that the purpose  of today's  meeting  is to                                                            
entertain  public testimony  regarding  the Conference  of  Alaskans                                                            
Resolutions  and other fiscal  planning issues.  Testimony  would be                                                            
limited to five-minute increments until otherwise noted.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT  PRUNELLA,  City Manager,  City  of Wrangell,  testified  via                                                            
teleconference  from  Wrangell   to encourage   the  Legislature  to                                                            
continue their  serious efforts to develop a State  fiscal plan. The                                                            
City Council  and city  residents ask that  the Legislature  address                                                            
community requests regarding  State revenue sharing. The City has an                                                            
approximate $600,000 revenue  deficit this year and received minimal                                                            
State revenue.  To address  the City's deficit,  reductions  in City                                                            
services  such as fire and  police services,  would be required.  He                                                            
favored  utilizing some  of the  Permanent Fund  earnings with  some                                                            
portion  of  that  being  designated  for  municipalities;  and  the                                                            
implementation  of an  income tax  as well as  a Municipal  dividend                                                            
program. There  is no support for a State sales tax.  While there is                                                            
a local  school bond proposition  package  on an upcoming  community                                                            
ballot, were it  adopted, it's funding would be questionable  as the                                                            
city has no money to support capital projects.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde encouraged  Mr. Prunella to recognize and discuss with                                                            
community members  the fact that any money the State  might generate                                                            
to  support  community  revenue  sharing  or  a  dividend  would  be                                                            
acquired from State residents.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Prunella  acknowledged this fact,  but noted that the  source of                                                            
the  money  would  be a  factor.  Due  to  the fact  that  the  City                                                            
currently has a 12-mill  property tax and a seven-percent sales tax,                                                            
it  would be  impossible  to  increase the  local  tax  base in  the                                                            
economically depressed community.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Prunella  stated that while there  is support for using  some of                                                            
the Permanent  Fund  earnings to  support municipalities,  it  could                                                            
reduce  the amount  of individuals'  Permanent  Fund Dividend  (PFD)                                                            
checks. The receipt  of a PFD is not an entitlement.  The economy of                                                            
the State must  be turned around.  Such things as education  funding                                                            
reductions are forcing young people to leave the State.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
STAN  STEPHENS,   Stan  Stephens   Wildlife  and  Glacier   Cruises,                                                            
testified via teleconference  from Valdez and urged that a long-term                                                            
fiscal   plan   be   developed   that   would   encourage   economic                                                            
diversification   in  the  State   as  opposed  to  continuing   the                                                            
dependence  on one industry. The recommendations  of the  Conference                                                            
of Alaskans should  be considered. While some say  that the State is                                                            
not experiencing  a fiscal  crisis, he opined  that "if survival  is                                                            
not a crisis  then that is probably  true." He urged Legislators  to                                                            
consider  the future of the  State as a  whole rather than  limiting                                                            
their view to their district.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  acknowledged Mr. Stephens as one  of the Conference                                                            
of Alaskans' 55 delegates.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
RICH  KRONBERG,  President,  NEA-Alaska,  testified  in  Juneau  and                                                            
shared  that NEA-Alaska  supports the  development  of a long  range                                                            
fiscal plan as well as  to acknowledge the efforts to address short-                                                            
term K-12 education  funding. The  differences between the  House of                                                            
Representatives  and  the Senate  regarding  school  funding  issues                                                            
should be  resolved, as there  is a need  to alleviate the  pressure                                                            
being  placed  on  school  districts  throughout  the  State.  State                                                            
residents would support  the development of a fiscal plan that would                                                            
provide  a long-term  fiscal fix  and provide  adequate funding  for                                                            
schools.  NEA-ALASKA has  no formal  position  on which methodology                                                             
should  be utilized  to address the  State's fiscal  gap. "We  stand                                                            
ready to  support any  plan that  would end the  annual trauma  that                                                            
schools  and school  districts"  have experienced  for  more than  a                                                            
decade as a result of State  funding support "that has not kept pace                                                            
with the cost of meeting those needs."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  asked the testifier  to define short-term  funding.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Kronberg  responded  that  short-term  funding  would  be  that                                                            
specified  for  the  next  school  year.  He reviewed  NEA-Alaska's                                                             
funding request for the next fiscal year.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde asked the definition of long-term funding.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Kronberg  clarified  that  a long-term  plan would  be one  that                                                            
would get  education funding  to the point  where the standards  for                                                            
student education could be met.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  asked whether this  might require five or  ten years.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Kronberg expressed that since it took the education system a                                                                
while to get to the point it is, it would take a while to get to                                                                
the required level.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ROGER CREMO, a resident of Anchorage, appeared in Juneau before the                                                             
Committee and read his testimony regarding SJR 18-CONST. AM: PF                                                                 
APPROPS/INFLATION-PROOFING as follows.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Presentation to Senate  Finance Committee on CSSJR 18 (3/17/04)                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     You're  considering   the  POMV  method  of  takeout   for  the                                                            
     Permanent  Fund. Before you decide whether it's  any good, take                                                            
     a  hard look  at  the constitutional   provision  you would  be                                                            
     putting it  into. And, by the way, I prefer the  POMV method to                                                            
     the one we've got now.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Unlike   a  statute,   which   is  relatively   transitory,   a                                                            
     constitutional  provision  can  be  on the  books  forever.  It                                                            
     should  be near  perfect - a  product of  sound analysis,  wise                                                            
     decision  and excellent drafting.  But the track record  of our                                                            
     constitutional  amendments,  in  the  fiscal area,  isn't  very                                                            
     good.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Besides Section  15, there have been two amendments  of Article                                                            
     9  since it  was  written in  1955.  Section 16,  which  limits                                                            
     appropriations,  ignored the first rule of organization  - that                                                            
     authority  must be commensurate  with duty. Your duty  is to do                                                            
     that  which in your  judgment will promote  the welfare  of the                                                            
     people of  this state. The amendment to Section  16 limits your                                                            
     ability to  discharge that duty. Fortunately,  the provision is                                                            
     otherwise so flawed that it has never come into play.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The  other  amendment,  Section   17,  established  the  Budget                                                            
     Reserve Fund,  which has facilitated, if not  promoted, deficit                                                            
     spending  in most  of the  years since  1990.  And, its  voting                                                            
     requirements  have  resulted  in  end-of-session  arrangements                                                             
     that,  over  the years,  have  added  hundreds of  millions  of                                                            
     dollars to that deficit spending.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     That leaved  Section 15, which  established an endowment  - the                                                            
     Alaska  Permanent   Fund.  Typical  of  documents  that  create                                                            
     endowments,  the section has  three components. One  determines                                                            
     what  money  goes  into  the  fund.   Another  deals  with  the                                                            
     investment  of the  money. And  the third  determines how  much                                                            
     money is to be taken out for spending.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Twenty-five  percent of  royalties is  supposed to go  into the                                                            
     fund.  But Section 15  doesn't nail  down that requirement.  It                                                            
     can be circumvented  by agreeing to the reduction  of royalties                                                            
     while increasing  the production tax. That can,  over a period,                                                            
     divert  billions of  dollars to  the General  Fund. Of  course,                                                            
     such  a  tactic  wouldn't  even  be  considered  unless  fiscal                                                            
     pressures were compelling.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     The  only  thing  that  Section 15  requires  with  respect  to                                                            
     investment  is that the fund's principal "can  be used only for                                                            
     those income-producing  investments specifically  designated by                                                            
     law  as eligible for  permanent fund  investments." That  means                                                            
     stocks  that regularly  pay dividends  and,  of course,  bonds.                                                            
     But  the  Alaska   Permanent  Fund  Corporation   probably  has                                                            
     invested   billions  in   stocks  that   don't  regularly   pay                                                            
     dividends.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     This is not to say  that the Permanent Fund Corporation doesn't                                                            
     do  a good  job  investing. It  has  ably managed  the  state's                                                            
     capital.  But  it has  been  forced  to liberally  construe  an                                                            
     inadequate constitutional provision.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  thanked  Mr.  Cremo for  his  comments  and  asked                                                            
whether he might  be available for further discussion  following the                                                            
public testimony.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo commented that he would be available.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  introduced Jessica  Crier from Fairbanks  and Sarah                                                            
[last name unknown} as guest pages.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR.  DOUG   STARK,  Member,  Homer   City  Council,  testified   via                                                            
teleconference  from Homer  and noted  that the  Homer City  Council                                                            
recently adopted two resolutions:  one in support of the development                                                            
of a  State fiscal  plan this  year and  the other  in support  of a                                                            
municipal dividend  program. Homer would experience  a budge deficit                                                            
in  excess  of  $450,000  this  year.  He  personally  supports  the                                                            
Percent-of-Market-Value  program  (POMV)  although  he is  concerned                                                            
that, were it to go to  a Statewide ballot, it would be defeated due                                                            
"to misinformation."  A  defeat of  the POMV by  the citizens  might                                                            
then  be interpreted  by the  Legislature  that citizens  would  not                                                            
support utilizing Permanent  Fund earnings to support the budget. He                                                            
personally  supported using Permanent  Fund earnings to support  the                                                            
PFD and inflation  proofing of the  Fund "in the normal manner"  and                                                            
the use of  the remainder of the earnings  to fund State  operations                                                            
and provide  municipal assistance.  He also supported increased  gas                                                            
and tobacco taxes.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JOHN VELSKO,  concerned citizen, testified  via teleconference  from                                                            
Homer  and  urged  the  Committee  to  support  the  POMV  plan  and                                                            
municipal revenue  sharing with incorporated  communities.  He would                                                            
support having  a smaller PFD if it were offset by  lowered property                                                            
and sales taxes. He does  not support an income tax. Last year's PFD                                                            
did not offset  expenses incurred  by increased user fees  and other                                                            
taxes  such  as  property  taxes.  He urged  that  the  "free  ride"                                                            
currently  provided  to unincorporated   communities  cease, as  all                                                            
people  should contribute.  The POMV  would be a  step in the  right                                                            
direction. He  noted that when oil prices rise above  $30 per barrel                                                            
the  economic  limit  factor  (ELF) should  be  cancelled.  He  also                                                            
recalled that when the  Permanent Fund was being established, it was                                                            
understood that it would provide a Rainy Day Fund.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JOHN DAVID  REAGAN testified  via teleconference  from Fairbanks  in                                                            
support of  a State income tax. He  voiced disbelief that  "the most                                                            
normal customary method  of taxation in America in the 20th Century"                                                            
is not  being  considered  even though  it has  widespread  support.                                                            
There  was  an  income  tax  in the  State  in  the  1970s  and  the                                                            
Legislature's   refusal    to   reinstitute   an   income   tax   is                                                            
incomprehensible. He stated  that efforts to utilize the earnings of                                                            
the Permanent  Fund without an income tax being also  utilized would                                                            
not be supported.  State resources, such as the PFD,  belong equally                                                            
to all  Alaskans. The  PFD has  a significant  impact on  low-income                                                            
families and  communities. Republicans  are attempting to  shift the                                                            
tax burden  to low-income  people and "the  rich get richer."  There                                                            
should be a progressive income tax.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ANDY  HARRINGTON testified  via  teleconference  from Fairbanks  and                                                            
pointed out that there  has been a shift in the dialogue in that the                                                            
people  who once  stated that  the  Permanent Fund  earnings  should                                                            
never  be touched  or that  taxes should  never be  imposed are  now                                                            
talking  about a combination  of things.  He urged  that a  moderate                                                            
approach  be adopted: moderate  spending controls,  moderate  use of                                                            
the Permanent Fund earnings,  and moderate taxes. It is important to                                                            
note that  the Conference  of Alaskans  not only  answered the  four                                                            
questions  they were  charged with,  but that they  also urged  that                                                            
consideration   be  provided   to   other  options   including   the                                                            
implementation  of an income tax. Noting Governor  Frank Murkowski's                                                            
recent testimony  regarding  the negative affect  of alcohol  on the                                                            
State, he voiced  support for the  implementation of a "sin"  tax on                                                            
such things as  alcohol and tobacco. He supported  the POMV program,                                                            
was reluctant  on Constitutionalizing  the Permanent Fund  Dividend,                                                            
approved of using  the earnings of the Permanent Fund,  and approved                                                            
of  maintaining  a prudent  balance  in  the  Constitutional  Budget                                                            
Reserve (CBR).                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CARL   EVERTSBUSCH,   President,   Key  Coalition,   testified   via                                                            
teleconference   from   Anchorage   on   behalf   of   the   State's                                                            
developmentally  disabled and  their support  groups. Their  numbers                                                            
are  continuing to  grow.  Funding of  essential  services has  been                                                            
limited due  to the lack  of revenue. Community-based  services  are                                                            
essential services;  therefore the Key Coalition is  in support of a                                                            
long range  fiscal plan that includes  reasonable spending,  the use                                                            
of the earnings  of the Permanent Fund, and the implementation  of a                                                            
broad based  and fair tax. In a recent  conversation with  some low-                                                            
income people, it was expressed  that they were willing to receive a                                                            
lower PFD  and pay a sales  tax if that  would be required  in order                                                            
for the State to support essential services.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KATHY  FITZGERALD testified  via  teleconference  from Anchorage  on                                                            
behalf  of her  family and,  in particular,  her  disabled  daughter                                                            
regarding the  value of providing  a quality community to  everyone.                                                            
This would  include education,  recreation,  job opportunities,  and                                                            
other things that  are important to our quality of  life. She voiced                                                            
support of  a broad-based  income tax and  the POMV. She would  also                                                            
support  the reinstatement  of  the school  tax and  other taxes  to                                                            
support essential  services that are required for  the developmental                                                            
disabled and communities that need funding.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BOB WEINSTEIN,  Mayor, City and Borough of Ketchikan,  testified via                                                            
teleconference  from Ketchikan  and voiced  that, as  one of  the 55                                                            
appointees  of the Conference  of Alaskans  he is supportive  of the                                                            
recommendations  that  were adopted  at the  Conference.  "Use of  a                                                            
portion of the  excess income or excess percentage  of market value"                                                            
of the  Permanent Fund  "would not, under  certain circumstances  be                                                            
sufficient"  to fill  the  current or  projected  fiscal gap.  Under                                                            
POMV,  excess  earnings could  be  "a major  support  for  essential                                                            
services," but additional  revenues would be required. Therefore, he                                                            
urged  Committee  Members  to  recognize  that  POMV  would  be  one                                                            
component of a  plan to meet the State's long-term  fiscal needs. It                                                            
should  also   be  recognized  that   the  high  oil  prices   being                                                            
experienced  today would not be sustained  and that, were  a plan in                                                            
place,  residents "would  be assured  that critical  services  would                                                            
continue without interruption."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ROSS  SCHAEFFER,  Mayor, Northwest  Arctic  Borough,  testified  via                                                            
teleconference from Kotzebue  and urged that a long term fiscal plan                                                            
be adopted that would utilize  some of the earnings of the Permanent                                                            
Fund to pay  for public services while  maintaining and growing  the                                                            
individual  PFD program under  the POMV management  system.  He also                                                            
supports  the  sharing   of  State  revenue  through   an  equitable                                                            
municipal dividend  program, a low income tax, an  education tax and                                                            
other taxes.  He does not support  a Statewide sales tax.  He voiced                                                            
support for an [unspecified]  education bill that is being presented                                                            
by the  House of  Representatives.  Communities  are struggling  and                                                            
that revenue  sharing is  needed. The elimination  of the  Longevity                                                            
Bonus  program  has  created  additional  problems  in  that  senior                                                            
citizens are unable  to pay utility bills and other  expenses. Fifty                                                            
percent of  the municipal governments  in the State would  be unable                                                            
to provide  sufficient public services  within the next years.  They                                                            
have had to reduce  staffing, have raised property  and other taxes,                                                            
and resorted  to other  measures to address  their budget  problems.                                                            
Municipal assistance is necessary.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SANDY SHOULDERS,  Resident of Talkeetna  and Representative,  Parent                                                            
Teacher  Association (PTA),  testified  in Juneau  that a  long-term                                                            
fiscal  plan is  essential and  is long  overdue. One  of the  PTA's                                                            
positions on  education funding is  that it must be stable  funding.                                                            
Trauma to teachers,  schools, and  students is the result  of annual                                                            
budget  "scrambles"  in regards  to  staffing, supplies,  and  other                                                            
important school  components. She  is "too old" to continue  to deal                                                            
with  this  "rollercoaster   ride."  She  urged  the   Committee  to                                                            
stabilize  the State's fiscal  program not  only for education,  but                                                            
also for the good of the State in general.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  asked  regarding  the  new  Talkeetna   elementary                                                            
school.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Shoulders  responded  that  it is a  vast improvement  over  the                                                            
"abominable" other school.  She acknowledged the efforts of Co-Chair                                                            
Green, local parents, and  others who worded hard to make the school                                                            
a reality.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson  opined that  the  goal of  stabilizing  the  State's                                                            
fiscal situation  is difficult due to the fact that  the State is so                                                            
dependent on  the price of oil, which  fluctuates dramatically.  The                                                            
two  options  available  to  reduce  this  dependency   and  provide                                                            
stability would be to either  raise taxes to provide a steady income                                                            
stream with which to support  State government or to reduce spending                                                            
to a level  that could  be supported by  oil revenues. People  would                                                            
not desire to have services  reduced or to have taxes increased to a                                                            
high level. He asked what method Ms. Shoulders would recommend.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Shoulders   responded  that   personally,  she  would   support                                                            
utilization of  the earnings of the Permanent Fund,  as that was the                                                            
reason   it  was  initially   established.   She  agreed  that   the                                                            
fluctuating  price of  oil is an  on-going issue,  and therefore  to                                                            
continue to fund State  government on that basis is ludicrous. While                                                            
acknowledging  that there  are people  who could  not afford  not to                                                            
receive  their annual PFD,  she would  forgo her  PFD if it  were so                                                            
required.  In addition,  people  who pay  nothing  to support  State                                                            
government should be paying in some manner.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson asked  whether  she would  support using  all of  the                                                            
Permanent  Fund earnings to  support State  government to fill  that                                                            
gap.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Shoulders  stated that while she would resign  her PFD check she                                                            
could not answer for others.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde  pointed out  that  in regards  to  stable  education                                                            
funding,  State support  for education has  consistently  increased,                                                            
not  decreased,  during  the  time  he  has  been  involved  in  the                                                            
Legislature. Therefore,  the amount of money that  was most recently                                                            
budgeted for education  would be the base for the  next fiscal year.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Shoulders  voiced the hope that as Legislators  develop a fiscal                                                            
plan, appropriate funding sources would be identified.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde responded  that the source would be the same as it has                                                            
been. The  State either "robs  Peter to pay  Paul" or a new  revenue                                                            
source  is identified.  Judging from  letters to  the editor  of the                                                            
[unspecified]  newspaper,  he lacked  the confidence  that much  new                                                            
revenue would be generated from the community of Talkeetna.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Shoulders  responded that  there are  other opinions aside  from                                                            
those printed in the newspaper.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MARY HAKALA,  Parent of three school  age children and Coordinator,                                                             
Alaska Kids Count,  testified in Juneau that the nonpartisan  parent                                                            
organization  supports  schools  and children  by  volunteering  and                                                            
advocating  for increased  school  funding.  While  the current  $85                                                            
million  school budget  is  appreciated, it  is inadequate  to  meet                                                            
needs. She understood that  new revenue sources would be required to                                                            
support   the  desired  level   of  excellence.   Noting  that   the                                                            
organization   has  urged  parents  to  speak  up  regarding   their                                                            
individual  funding recommendations   to support  of education,  she                                                            
stated that  she personally is asking  that Legislators revisit  ELF                                                            
to insure that  the State is maximizing  its yield by receiving  its                                                            
fair share of oil profits,  especially when oil prices are elevated;                                                            
would support  the enactment of POMV; the utilization  of "a portion                                                            
of the Permanent Fund earnings  to support critical services such as                                                            
education,"  and the  enactment  of a broad  based  income tax.  She                                                            
urged the  Committee to make  education a  top priority, as  schools                                                            
need Legislatures  "to tackle the  thorny issue of the revenue  side                                                            
of the equation."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman asked whether  the testifier would support an income                                                            
tax or a sales tax.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hakala responded that  a sales tax would be devastating to those                                                            
organized  boroughs  that have  existing  sales tax  programs.  Some                                                            
utilize their  sales tax proceeds to support local  education needs.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  acknowledged the value of good volunteers,  such as                                                            
Ms. Hakala, to organizations.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SFC-04 # 46, Side B 02:21 PM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REVEREND RICHARD  OLSON, Parent, testified  via teleconference  from                                                            
Homer  to speak on  behalf of  those people  to whom  the PFD  is of                                                            
tremendous  importance, especially  those people  who live  in Rural                                                            
Alaska. A PFD  check to people who earn more that  $100,000 annually                                                            
is incidental.  He opined  that the  55 Alaskan  delegates who  were                                                            
appointed by Governor Frank  Murkowski to the Conference of Alaskans                                                            
represent rich  people as proven by  their reluctance to  support an                                                            
income  tax  while  supporting  efforts  to reduce  PFD  levels.  He                                                            
professed  that  a graduated  income  tax,  beginning  at a  minimum                                                            
annual income  of $50,000 should be  considered, especially  as this                                                            
tax would  capture money  from those people  who move to the  State,                                                            
earn big money, and then  move away without contributing anything to                                                            
the State.  All other states  have income  taxes, so why not  should                                                            
Alaska.  He argued  that  the PFD  should be  left  alone as  people                                                            
depend  on  it.  He also  spoke  against  a  State  sales  tax,  but                                                            
supported  the  re-implementation  of  a  school  tax.  Implement  a                                                            
graduated  income tax,  and  tax tourists  before  changing the  PFD                                                            
program. He  also suggested that the  Permanent Fund investments  be                                                            
conducted in a different manner.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  commented that numerous states do not  have an income                                                            
tax.  The  Commissioner  of  the  Department   of Revenue   recently                                                            
testified that  those states that depend on revenues  generated from                                                            
income taxes,  rather than a sales tax, to support  state government                                                            
are experiencing  economic  downturns.  He also  addressed the  myth                                                            
regarding  the substantial  amount of  money that  leaves the  State                                                            
because of non-resident  workers. 90-percent of the  wages earned in                                                            
the State are  earned by Alaskans. The average salary  earned by the                                                            
remaining ten-percent  non-residents is $13,000 and  therefore would                                                            
not be remitting any income  tax were a graduated income tax program                                                            
in place.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green asked whether  there is a  bill being proposed  that                                                            
would eliminate the PFD as referenced by the testifier.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked the  testifier whether his comments were meant                                                            
to indicate that  there is legislation being presented  to eliminate                                                            
the PFD program.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Reverend Olson responded  that while there is no bill being proposed                                                            
to eliminate  the  PFD, the  POMV would  remove some  of the  excess                                                            
earnings.  He professed  that the  entirety of  the excess  earnings                                                            
should  be distributed  to Alaskans.  An  income tax  should be  the                                                            
first consideration.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MARY GRISWOLD,  testified via teleconference  from Homer  and voiced                                                            
support for a  combination of SJR 32 and a committee  substitute for                                                            
SJR 18 that  would establish a POMV  program established  at a five-                                                            
percent market  value payout of the  Permanent Fund with  80-percent                                                            
of that  amount being  allocated to  pay PFDs.  This would serve  to                                                            
preserve the Permanent  Fund through inflation proofing, as only the                                                            
principal is currently  inflation-proofed by an annual appropriation                                                            
authorized  by the  Legislature, "subject  to  available funds."  In                                                            
addition,  the  POMV program  "would  prevent  the erosion"  of  the                                                            
Fund's  value  by"  limiting  spending  "in times  of  plenty."  The                                                            
proposed  payout method would  also comply  with general  accounting                                                            
principals,  which are appropriate  to the current diversified  fund                                                            
structure consisting of  stocks, bonds, and real estate. The current                                                            
payout method  is no longer  valid as the  Fund is no longer  solely                                                            
invested in  income producing bonds.  The POMV should remain  simple                                                            
and comparable  to  the current  dividend  system in  order to  gain                                                            
voter  approval.   While  not  generally  accepting   of  dedicating                                                            
appropriation  language  into  the State's  Constitution,  the  POMV                                                            
method would be worthy  of consideration. It is imperative that this                                                            
issue  be addressed  in  order to  allow the  State  to address  its                                                            
fiscal dilemma.  She reiterated that  after inflation proofing,  the                                                            
remaining portion  of the five-percent of the earnings  as specified                                                            
in the POMV plan, should  be divvied out at an 80/20 percent payout,                                                            
with  80 percent  of  the payout  being  dedicated to  the  dividend                                                            
program  and  20  percent  being  dedicated   to support   essential                                                            
government  services. This  performance model  would also be  a more                                                            
trusted model  that one  based on projections  and short-term  look-                                                            
backs.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
TABER REHBAUM testified  via teleconference from Fairbanks on behalf                                                            
of  herself  and voiced  support  for  the  Conference  of  Alaskans                                                            
resolution  regarding the Constitutional  Budget Reserve  (CBR). She                                                            
noted that  the question  evoked by this  resolution is where  would                                                            
the funding  come from  with which  to stabilize  the CBR. She  also                                                            
spoke in  support of  the POMV  while pondering  whether the  voters                                                            
would approve  it because it is a  confusing issue and voters  might                                                            
ascertain  that it would  be an attack on  the Dividend rather  than                                                            
actually  preserving  it.  She  suggested  that  in  order  to  gain                                                            
acceptance,  after  the  PFDs  are paid  this  year,  the  remaining                                                            
earnings should  be used to balance  the budget and to build  up the                                                            
CBR. This might  further clarify how the POMV would  work. She noted                                                            
that the last  phase in the CBR resolution  is worthy of  mentioning                                                            
as it reads, "Whereas  Alaska must not impose self-inflicted  harm."                                                            
This phrase  could  be understood  that State  funding of  essential                                                            
services should  not be reduced to  a point where harm would  result                                                            
rather than finding  ways to increase revenue. An  income tax should                                                            
be  considered as  one  of the  areas from  which  revenue could  be                                                            
generated.  People are  willing  to pay  their way  and a  graduated                                                            
income tax  would be a good option.  Addressing the fiscal  gap, and                                                            
particularly  addressing the need  to adequately fund education,  is                                                            
long overdue.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DWIGHT  MORRIS  testified  via  teleconference  from  Fairbanks  and                                                            
voiced  his  support  for  the  Resolutions  of  the  Conference  of                                                            
Alaskans. He  voiced that the earnings  of the Permanent  Fund alone                                                            
would not  be sufficient  to balance the budget  this year.  He also                                                            
supported an  income tax, but not  a sales tax, as it would  promote                                                            
Internet  purchases  that would  drive money  out of  the State.  It                                                            
would be  disastrous to  communities that  already have local  sales                                                            
taxes.  He urged  the  Committee to  balance  the State  budget  and                                                            
establish  a tax plan,  an income  tax plan, and  a budget plan.  He                                                            
warned that  without a budget  plan, the State  would face  a crisis                                                            
similar to that currently being faced by education.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  clarified that he would also desire  "to fix the roof                                                            
before  it   rains  rather   than  have  it   rain  on  our   parade                                                            
financially."  However,  he  avowed  that the  impression  that  the                                                            
earnings of the Permanent  Fund would be insufficient to address the                                                            
State's fiscal  gap is inaccurate  as between  $600 million  and one                                                            
point two billion  dollars in earnings  have annually been  realized                                                            
in the last few  years. Therefore, due to the fact  that this year's                                                            
fiscal  gap is  projected  to  be approximately  $500  million,  the                                                            
earnings would be sufficient.  Were a POMV plan in affect, according                                                            
to the  Department of  Revenue, there  would be  enough earnings  to                                                            
provide  both a dividend  and close  this year's  fiscal gap.  Other                                                            
year's ability in this  regard would depend on that year's financial                                                            
market.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JERRY MCCUTCHEON  testified  via teleconference  from Anchorage  and                                                            
asked what the  State would depend on for income in  the future when                                                            
there were  only 100,000,  250,000 or 500,000  barrels of oil  being                                                            
produced,  were it  to dip  into its  Permanent  Fund earnings  now.                                                            
Actions  today will  affect  tomorrow.  The Permanent  Fund's  $28.6                                                            
billion  went to  $21.3 billion  during  the most  recent  financial                                                            
market  downturn before  it turned  around. Were  the State to  have                                                            
invested for  a modest rate of return,  the balance would  currently                                                            
be $31.5  billion. While  the Permanent Fund  value has returned  to                                                            
$28  billion,  it  has  lost  one-third  of  its  purchasing  power.                                                            
Therefore,  it is really  only worth about  $19 billion today.  When                                                            
compared to gold,  it's value is even less. Those  managing the Fund                                                            
are "asleep at  the switch." Alaska's oil taxes are  based on an $18                                                            
per barrel price  and the formula provides oil companies  less money                                                            
when the  price is  less than ten  dollars per  barrel. There  is no                                                            
consideration  to the tax in regards to when the price  exceeds $18.                                                            
OPEC has raised its barrel  taxes several times to keep in line with                                                            
current  conditions and  is today  based on  a $36  dollar a  barrel                                                            
price. Every  dollar per  barrel increase over  $18 equates  to $365                                                            
million  in  revenue,  of which  the  oil  companies  receives  $300                                                            
million and  the State receives  $65 million.  "A real poor  split."                                                            
When  oil prices  increase  from  $18 to  $33  per barrel,  the  oil                                                            
company  receives $5.5  billion in  un-taxed revenue  and the  State                                                            
receives $950  million. When the price is $36, the  total revenue is                                                            
$6.5 billion:  oil companies would receive $5.4 billion  "to go play                                                            
elsewhere in  the world and have a  good time and prospect"  and the                                                            
State would  receive $1.1  billion. Elsewhere  in the world,  "those                                                            
numbers would be reversed." We need to do something about this.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ERIC WOHLFORTH  testified via teleconference  from Anchorage  and on                                                            
behalf of himself  and fellow convener, Arliss Sturgelewski,  it was                                                            
an honor to participate  in the Conference of Alaskans. In his view,                                                            
changes should  be made incrementally rather than  to be implemented                                                            
within a one-year timeframe.  In addition, it would be acceptable to                                                            
further  an adequate  plan and  amend it  as needed  rather than  to                                                            
delay action due to the  position that an ideologically perfect plan                                                            
must be  developed.  The Conference  of Alaskans  actions  proceeded                                                            
with that  understanding  and view  in mind.  The delegates  adopted                                                            
what  could  be  referred  to  as  a "comprehensive   solution."  He                                                            
declared  that  the  POMV  should  be specifically   considered  and                                                            
adopted  as "a separate  stand-alone" methodology  through  which to                                                            
provide a payoff  from the Permanent Fund. He urged  that, "the plan                                                            
be adopted  because it is an efficient  and effective way  of giving                                                            
the Legislature  a maximum percentage each year of  amounts that can                                                            
be  spend each  year  from the  Permanent  Fund." He  supported  the                                                            
notion that  "an incremental  plan is better  than none; looking  at                                                            
the proposition  of  spending this  year some  amounts of  Permanent                                                            
Fund earnings  through Legislative action;" and that,  were it to be                                                            
legally  allowed and  approved  by a vote  of the  people, that  the                                                            
monies that could  be spent from the Permanent Fund  be utilized and                                                            
prioritized  to support education.  This would be the first  step in                                                            
developing  an  ultimate  fiscal  plan.  He  does  not  support  the                                                            
Conference    of     Alaskans'    Resolution    in     support    of                                                            
Constitutionalizing  the Permanent  Fund Dividend. He stressed  that                                                            
inadequate  funding  of  education  is  a  major  issue  that  "will                                                            
substantially  detract  from the  future of  the State."  If we  are                                                            
looking for advancing economic  development, support of education at                                                            
the local and university  level would be required. He also supported                                                            
the implementation of broad  based taxes such as tobacco and alcohol                                                            
taxes.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken thanked  Mr. Wohlforth for his service to the State.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
AL  JUDSON,  testified  in  Juneau  and voiced  that  the  issue  of                                                            
education funding  is the most important issue facing  the State. In                                                            
addition, he questioned  the continuance of the tax  breaks that are                                                            
afforded  to  oil  companies.  Appropriate  taxation  would  provide                                                            
needed revenue to the State.  [NOTE: The quality of the recording of                                                            
this  testimony was  substandard  and  therefore the  testimony  was                                                            
difficult to understand.]                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Stedman responded  to a comment  by Mr.  Judson by  stating                                                            
that the forthcoming  move of the  Marine Highway System  operations                                                            
staff to  Ketchikan  from Juneau would  enable the  children  of the                                                            
affected  families to  receive a qualify  of education  equal  to or                                                            
exceeding that provided  in the City and Borough of Juneau. The move                                                            
would  also be  in  the best  interest  of the  State,  as it  would                                                            
enhance  the economy  of the  Ketchikan  region and  save the  State                                                            
money.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN  RITCHIE,   Executive  Director,   Alaska  Municipal   League,                                                            
testified in Juneau that  the League supports the POMV program as it                                                            
could adequately provide  PFD funding, inflation proofing, and money                                                            
to  support  State  government.  In addition,  the  League  and  the                                                            
Conference  of Mayors would support  furthering concepts  that would                                                            
provide education  funding, the development of a municipal  dividend                                                            
program, and other public  service programs from the earnings of the                                                            
Permanent  Fund. There is  also support for  a minimal State  income                                                            
tax and other  taxes; however, he reminded that sales  taxes are one                                                            
of the primary  revenue sources for many local government  entities,                                                            
especially those  small communities that have no property  tax base.                                                            
Testimony in support of  developing a long-term fiscal plan has been                                                            
noted,  as  the  current  situation   is  alarming  to  many  people                                                            
including  the  developmentally   disabled,  senior   citizens,  and                                                            
essential service  providers. In the  2002 election, when  the State                                                            
tax cap issue  was on the ballot, two out of three  voters supported                                                            
maintaining existing taxes  as they recognize the value of what they                                                            
support.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  expressed delight that  the League is now  in support                                                            
of Legislators'  abilities  to  address the  State's  fiscal gap  as                                                            
opposed to their earlier position of "no confidence."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MIKE NAVARRE  former Legislator  and former  Mayor, Kenai  Peninsula                                                            
Borough, testified  via teleconference  from Kenai and voiced  that,                                                            
while he was originally  ambivalent about it, he is  honored to have                                                            
been one of the  55 participants in the Conference  of Alaskans. The                                                            
Conference  served to generate  a lot of discussion  and a  focus on                                                            
the issues.  "That,  in and  of itself,  is tremendous."  He  voiced                                                            
appreciation  for the  efforts  of the  Legislature  to address  the                                                            
issues,  and he  urged them  "to get  on with  it."  He opposed  any                                                            
reduction of residents'  PFDs, opposed using any of  the earnings of                                                            
the Permanent  Fund to support State  government, opposed  an income                                                            
tax and  a State  sales tax,  opposed  increasing taxes  on the  oil                                                            
industry, opposed  an increase in  motor fuel taxes, but  understood                                                            
that all or some  combination of these would be necessary.  He urged                                                            
that the POMV "with no  attachments" be put before the citizenry for                                                            
a vote, as  it is an absolute no-brainer.  Acknowledging  that there                                                            
is support  for tying the  POMV to such things  as a Permanent  Fund                                                            
dividend guarantee  or a spending limit would guarantee  its failure                                                            
as  the issue  is "confusing  enough"  as  a stand  alone  proposal.                                                            
Rather than allowing  access to the earnings of the  Permanent Fund,                                                            
the POMV really  would limit the Legislature's  ability to  get into                                                            
the Fund.  Inflation proofing  of the  Fund as  the first course  of                                                            
action makes  "absolute sense."  He urged  the Committee to  support                                                            
this program,  as, in his opinion,  those in opposition to  the POMV                                                            
are "just wrong."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Navarre voiced support  for being able to access the earnings of                                                            
the Permanent  Fund and the  implementation  of an income tax.  As a                                                            
former participant  in the Conference  of Mayors, he had  begged the                                                            
Legislature  in 1999,  without success,  to include  mayors and  the                                                            
Municipal League in the process of developing a fiscal plan.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SFC-04 # 47, Side A 03:06 PM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Navarre  concluded  that the POMV  should be  the first  step in                                                            
developing a State fiscal  plan and that once the public understands                                                            
it, it would  be embraced and supported.  One of the real  tragedies                                                            
in this State  has been the undermining of the institution  of State                                                            
government branches. The  public does not understand the responsible                                                            
job that the Legislature  has conducted in regards  to the Permanent                                                            
Fund. Two-thirds  of the Fund balance  is the result of Legislative                                                             
action  that deposited  discretionary  funding into  it. The  public                                                            
should congratulate the  Legislature for their actions regarding the                                                            
Fund. While  acknowledging that the  earnings of the Permanent  Fund                                                            
should  be  accessed,  he  declared  that  the  PFD  program  should                                                            
continue, "as  it is an economic engine"  in the State. He  reminded                                                            
that while subsurface  mineral rights are the property  of the State                                                            
of Alaska,  this  is not  the case in  other states  whose  citizens                                                            
utilize their  assets and contribute  to their state's economy.  The                                                            
State  of Alaska  utilizes  the PFD  program  to contribute  to  the                                                            
economy. He stated that  the Resolution regarding the Constitutional                                                            
guarantee for  the CBR was the hardest  vote for him to make  at the                                                            
Conference  as he could appreciate  arguments  on both sides  of the                                                            
issue…the higher  the amount is set, the more he disagrees  with it.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MARIE  LAVIGNE  testified  via  teleconference   from  Anchorage  to                                                            
encourage the Legislature  to consider a diversification of measures                                                            
through which to address  the State's funding crisis. The goal would                                                            
be to  insure that  essential public  services  are continued.  Even                                                            
though there is  a focus on Missions and Measures,  the budget being                                                            
proposed  for FY 05 would  be harmful to  Alaskans, particularly  in                                                            
the health  care area.  Other components  that  would be  negatively                                                            
impacted  would  be municipal  funding,  education,  public  safety,                                                            
senior  services, alcohol  assessment  programs,  and mental  health                                                            
care. Continuing oil revenue  as the primary source of State revenue                                                            
would only result  in more severe budget reductions.  Things such as                                                            
the POMV,  a tourism  tax, an increase  in the  tobacco and  alcohol                                                            
tax, an  income tax,  and others  should be  considered to  generate                                                            
revenue for the  State. The Legislature must take  a leadership role                                                            
in the effort to develop a long-term fiscal plan.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
RON COWAN testified via  teleconference from Anchorage to urge, as a                                                            
long-term  care  ombudsman,  for  increasing   rather  than  reduced                                                            
support  for senior  citizen services.  He expressed  that  services                                                            
could be increased without increasing funding were programs re-                                                                 
evaluated for the long-term.  It must be acknowledged that the State                                                            
is experiencing  a growth in its senior  citizen population  as well                                                            
as its special  needs population. As a citizen who  is interested in                                                            
maintaining essential services,  he would be willing to have the PFD                                                            
program altered, would  pay an income tax, would not support a sales                                                            
tax, but  would be willing  to make sacrifices.  Now is the  time to                                                            
take some  personal action  to help the State.  He voiced dismay  at                                                            
hearing that  people might leave the  State to get their  children a                                                            
better  education.  While  oil  and  other  natural   resources  are                                                            
important to  the State, children,  seniors, and other citizens  are                                                            
also important  resources.  He urged  the Committee  to address  the                                                            
issue of balancing the budget.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CLEM TILLION,  Former Legislator, testified via teleconference  from                                                            
an offnet site  in Halibut Cove and noted that when  he was a member                                                            
of  the  Legislature  he  was the  only  person  who  voted  against                                                            
repealing  the State's income  tax. While he  would support  a sales                                                            
tax  or an  income  tax, he  preferred  a sales  tax  that would  be                                                            
contributed  in its entirety  back to the  community from whence  it                                                            
was collected to insure  every area of the State would contribute. A                                                            
small  income  tax levy  would  be acceptable  were  it  based on  a                                                            
person's  federal income  tax amount.  While he  supported the  POMV                                                            
proposal, he warned  that it might not be approved  were it a stand-                                                            
alone issue.  He suggested that up  to five percent of the  earnings                                                            
be distributed  as a PFD and that each recipient's  check be subject                                                            
to  a specified  tax  withholding  percentage.  This  would  provide                                                            
sufficient revenue to the State.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PAM LABOLLE, President,  Alaska State Chamber of Commerce, testified                                                            
in  Juneau,  that  the  Chamber  supports  the  POMV  proposal.  The                                                            
challenge of  addressing the State's  fiscal imbalance is  daunting,                                                            
however,  by utilizing  a variety  of different  revenue sources,  a                                                            
sound  fiscal plan  could be  developed.  The Chamber  urges that  a                                                            
prioritization  list be followed.  First,  a budget discipline  with                                                            
reasonable  spending  controls  should  be  developed  as  were  new                                                            
revenue  generated  without this  control  it could  compromise  the                                                            
effort.  A  portion  of  the  Permanent   Fund  earnings  should  be                                                            
allocated to  support government services  and provide for  the PFD.                                                            
As a  last resort,  implementation  of a broad-based  statewide  tax                                                            
could be considered.  However, she warned that a tax  could harm the                                                            
competitiveness  of  Alaska  businesses  over  time. She  urged  the                                                            
Committee to address the budget this year.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  asked whether the Chamber  would support an  increase                                                            
in the business tax.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. LaBolle responded  that the Chamber would support  a broad based                                                            
tax rather  than targeted  taxation,  as the citizens  of the  State                                                            
should support services.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  stated that a definitive analysis of  the downside of                                                            
any  new tax  should  be  reviewed.  A tax  increase  in  California                                                            
actually resulted  in a net decrease in revenue as  people moved out                                                            
of the state  in order to  avoid the taxes.  He asked whether  there                                                            
are any tools available  through which the effects of how a tax on a                                                            
specific group could be gauged.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. LaBolle stated  that the Council on State Taxation  has recently                                                            
conducted a  fifty-state study on  the affects of business  taxes in                                                            
each state. The Internet address is www.statetaxation.com.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  noted that testimony would now be  limited to three                                                            
minutes  in order  to compete  testimony before  the teleconference                                                             
network terminates at 4:00 PM.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
JEANNETT GRASTO,  Member, Alaska Mental Health Board,  testified via                                                            
teleconference  from Fairbanks and urged the Legislature  to develop                                                            
a long term fiscal plan  now rather than waiting until the situation                                                            
is more  desperate  and State services  are  further curtailed.  She                                                            
would  rather pay  a tax than  witness some  vulnerable individuals                                                             
being negatively  affected  by service reductions.  Reductions  have                                                            
negatively  impacted proven  long-term programs  such as the  Mental                                                            
Health Board and parent  support services. She supported continuance                                                            
of the PFD  program as many people  depend on it and it contributes                                                             
to the State economy.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SUSAN  STITHAM  testified  via  teleconference  from  Fairbanks  and                                                            
pointed out  that education funding  is the absolute responsibility                                                             
of the State. It is also  an economic engine as it attracts business                                                            
to a community  and enhances  the quality of  life. There is  also a                                                            
moral obligation  to the  next generation.  Funding reductions  that                                                            
have occurred  have "whittled  away funding  until there is  no more                                                            
fat left and we  are down to the marrow." Funding  reductions have a                                                            
negative  affect each year  on children.  Reduced opportunities  and                                                            
increased  class  sizes  is  shortsighted   and  will  short  change                                                            
education.  She urged that  legislation to  increase the  foundation                                                            
formula funding be supported.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Stitham voiced  support for the continuation of  the PFD and for                                                            
broad based  taxes such  as an income  tax. She,  like Mr.  Tillion,                                                            
would have voted  against the discontinuation of the  State's income                                                            
tax. Sales  taxes should be a local  issue. The results of  a recent                                                            
AARP survey on  taxation indicated, "that half of  all Alaskans feel                                                            
that  the cost  of  human  services  should be  shared  between  the                                                            
individual  and the State government."  That is an astonishing  fact                                                            
in that half of Alaskans  think the services should be free. Some of                                                            
these people pay practically nothing to support State services.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ROSELYNN  CACY,  Director,  Adult  Learning  Center,  University  of                                                            
Alaska Anchorage,  testified via teleconference  from Anchorage  and                                                            
urged the Legislature  to continue K-12 and University  funding. She                                                            
noted that  the Adult  Learning Center  plays a  role in  furthering                                                            
educational opportunities  for those Alaskans who do not hold a high                                                            
school diploma.  She voiced  appreciation  for the $300,000  general                                                            
fund allocation  that  was combined  with grant  monies to fund  the                                                            
Center. Investing in education is a true investment.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JEFFREY TODD  BROWN testified via  teleconference from Anchorage  in                                                            
opposition  to using the earnings  of the Permanent Fund  to support                                                            
State government  as  the Fund belongs  to the  people. While  other                                                            
states  utilize  tax  revenues  to  pay  their  debt,  Alaska's  oil                                                            
revenues should  be viewed as a taxation  methodology that  supports                                                            
Alaska's debt.  There would be no fiscal problem were  oil companies                                                            
charged the appropriate  taxation rate on oil production. ELF should                                                            
also be  re-evaluated.  It makes  him "wonder"  why the Legislature                                                             
does not address this issue.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JUDY TOLBERT,  Retired Teacher,  testified  via teleconference  from                                                            
Fairbanks to note that  since retirement, she has been active in the                                                            
University  and has assisted  in local classrooms.  She is  appalled                                                            
that the  smaller classroom  sizes, one-on-one  student assistance,                                                             
and teacher training achievements  that have been accomplished would                                                            
be undermined  by the proposed budget reductions.  She would support                                                            
an income tax. People are  spoiled by the services that are provided                                                            
in this State  and should be willing to contribute  to support them.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
EDDY BURKE, Chairman, Alaskans  Just Say No Committee, testified via                                                            
teleconference from Anchorage  in opposition to POMV, as it would be                                                            
a raid  on the Permanent  Fund Dividend. This  type of proposal  has                                                            
been defeated  before. Other options that could be  considered would                                                            
be consolidating  such things as the  Alaska Industrial Development                                                             
and Export  Authority (AIDEA)  and the  Alaska Housing Corporation;                                                             
tourism taxation;  and re-evaluation of ELF. There  is reluctance on                                                            
the part of the Legislature  and Governor Frank Murkowski to further                                                            
these options.  He stated  that the Alaskans  Just Say No  Committee                                                            
has developed  a form that  would allow those  citizens who  wish to                                                            
donate  their PFDs  to  the State  to  do so.  The majority  of  the                                                            
testifiers  today are  those  who are "in  the take  trough."  These                                                            
mayors,  city  council  people,  PTA  people,  chamber  of  commerce                                                            
members,  and  others  just  want more  money  for  their  programs.                                                            
Eighty-three  percent of Alaskans,  or the average citizen,  are not                                                            
speaking  today. Were they  to testify, they  would be saying  "no",                                                            
that  rather  than  there  being  a  fiscal  crisis,  "there  is  an                                                            
allocation  problem".   The  spending  gap  is  being  reduced.  The                                                            
Democratic  Party  should  let the  Republican  Party  "run off  the                                                            
cliff" and  be remembered  as the political  party "that raided  the                                                            
Dividend  or  implemented  the  largest  tax  increase  in  Alaska's                                                            
history" … a sales tax.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SOREN WUERTH,  Treasurer, Alaskans Just Say No Committee,  testified                                                            
via teleconference  from Anchorage and stated that  someone told him                                                            
that his organization's  goal of protecting the Permanent Fund would                                                            
lead to an  economic train wreck.  However, he countered  that if it                                                            
would  take  a train  wreck  to clear  the  rails  of irresponsible                                                             
leadership, let  it happen. Our PFD "train has a big  engine" and is                                                            
morally and  socially responsible.  Oil and tourism industries  take                                                            
money  out of  the State,  but  the Permanent  Fund  is an  economic                                                            
engine that  brings money  into the State  as the people's  money is                                                            
circulated  within the  State.  The PFD  is money  from our  natural                                                            
resources  and,  as such,  is the  people's  portfolio.  We are  all                                                            
shareholders  on this train  and "Legislators  are worried  that the                                                            
PFD train will  come hurling down the track toward  the framework of                                                            
government"  and without  outside  special interests  would run  the                                                            
show, contrary  to the situation  in which  Legislators want  to run                                                            
the show with full control.  The Permanent Fund stands in the way of                                                            
how the  Legislative  leadership  wants to  run the  show. "Let  the                                                            
train wreak come." 83-percent  of the citizens in the State "wish to                                                            
preserve  the Permanent Fund  far into the  distant future"  and the                                                            
misleading  propaganda  distributed  by  the Legislature  would  not                                                            
work.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE  VAKALES, Chair,  Board of  Directors,  Anchorage Chamber  of                                                            
Commerce,  testified  via teleconference   from Anchorage  that  the                                                            
Chamber  supports  the  development  of  a fiscal  plan  that  would                                                            
include budget  discipline, the use of Permanent Fund  earnings, and                                                            
the "institution of a broad-based tax."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken asked whether  Mr. Vakales  would consider  a sales                                                            
tax a broad-based tax.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Vakales affirmed that he would.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  asked whether  the Chamber  would prefer an  income                                                            
tax to a sales tax.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Vakales  stated that  the Chamber  has not  taken a position  on                                                            
this issue.  It would best be determined  by public opinion  and the                                                            
Legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FRANCINE  HARBOUR testified  via teleconference  from Anchorage  and                                                            
stated that she  is a "consumer of mental health services"  and that                                                            
rather  than being characterized  as  a person who  just wants  more                                                            
services, she  is simply concerned about living. She  shared some of                                                            
the negative  affects that have occurred  from reductions  in mental                                                            
health  services. The  services that  are being  provided help  keep                                                            
people alive. She asked  the Committee to develop a fiscal plan that                                                            
would provide adequate  funding of services for vulnerable Alaskans,                                                            
including  the elderly, the  young, and  especially the one-in-four                                                             
Alaskans who suffer from mental health issues.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SFC-04 # 47, Side B 03:51 PM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CLAUDIA CRISS  testified in Juneau  and urged that a fiscal  plan be                                                            
developed  that   would  support  health  services,   mental  health                                                            
services, and  education. A broad-based tax would  support necessary                                                            
services. In addition,  consideration should be given  to increasing                                                            
the tax levy on oil companies  so that when oil prices increase, the                                                            
State would receive more  revenue. Efforts should also be exerted to                                                            
diversify  the economy,  expand  the  State's Pacific  Rim  business                                                            
relationships,  and attract more industry  in order to provide  more                                                            
job  opportunities  for our  youth.  This  would encourage  them  to                                                            
remain in the State.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
BRAD FLUETSCH,  Charter Financial  Analyst, testified in  Juneau and                                                            
expressed that  to further the focus of these hearings,  which is to                                                            
develop a fiscal plan facing  the State, a framework or process must                                                            
be identified.  Were the State his client, he would  first determine                                                            
the goals  and objectives  to include such  things as what  level of                                                            
education,  mental health, and public  safety were desired.  Quality                                                            
of life and  standards of living could  be equated to dollars.  What                                                            
budget level would  be sufficient? The next step would  be to review                                                            
and identify sources  of income in the future with  realistic levels                                                            
and timeframes.  Revenue sources currently  include the CBR,  taxes,                                                            
oil  revenues,  the   Permanent  Fund,  resource  revenue,   federal                                                            
government and  others. The next step would be to  review the budget                                                            
including State  assets, their projected  growth rate, and  the rate                                                            
of   inflation.   Once  all   this   information  is   compiled,   a                                                            
determination could be  made as to whether the budget goals would be                                                            
achievable. Were it not,  adjustments could be made and plotted into                                                            
the future, to include asset risk tolerance and liquidity needs.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Fluetsch  informed  that he does  not support  POMV as the  Fund                                                            
consists  of money that  has been acquired  by utilizing  consumable                                                            
resources.  Were POMV  implemented,  a low payout  of approximately                                                             
three-point-five percent  and a [indiscernible] and volatile minimal                                                            
balance should  be identified. The  current system is currently  the                                                            
vehicle  of choice  to protect  family assets  from the government,                                                             
spendthrift descendants,  and financial scams. He  supported the use                                                            
of trusts.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken asked Mr.  Cremo to continue  the testimony  he had                                                            
begun earlier in the meeting.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo  reiterated  his support  for the POMV  proposal. He  also                                                            
stated that, to date, the  State has not done too well in the fiscal                                                            
area with its  Constitutional amendments. He continued  his comments                                                            
as follow.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Incidentally,  the  "income-producing"   requirement  expressly                                                            
     applies to principal.  Section 15 is silent with respect to the                                                            
     investment of accumulated income.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Another   thing.  Section  15   lacks  a  prohibition   against                                                            
     investment  in the obligations,  properties and enterprises  of                                                            
     the state.  How could the Permanent  Fund Corporation  resist a                                                            
     request from a fiscally  strapped legislature and governor that                                                            
     the fund  buy back and lease back a government  building or buy                                                            
     state bonds that brought no bids from investment bankers?                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     The greatest  fault, however, of Section 15 is  that it doesn't                                                            
     require that  all of the oil money go into the  Permanent Fund.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Endowments  have two  main purposed. One  is to perpetuate  the                                                            
     flow of money  to an operating entity, such as  a university, a                                                            
     foundation or a government.  The other is to stabilize the flow                                                            
     of money to the operating entity.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The  Alaska  Permanent  Fund  provides  a good  example  of  an                                                            
     endowment  with  the first-mentioned  purpose  - perpetuation.                                                             
     Revenue  from the fund's  investments  continues to flow  after                                                            
     the natural resource is exhausted.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     A university's  endowment provides  an example of an  endowment                                                            
     with  the other  purpose  - stabilization  of  income.  Wealthy                                                            
     alumni die and leave  large amounts of money to the university.                                                            
     The  flow of  that money  to the  university  is irregular.  It                                                            
     could  be more than a  million dollars  a year for a period  of                                                            
     several years.  Then, for another period, it  could fall off to                                                            
     much less than that.  If that money were treated as income, the                                                            
     fluctuations wouldn't be easy to manage.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     In  the  case  of the  state,  the  oil  revenue  is  extremely                                                            
     volatile. Yet the  state isn't using its endowment to stabilize                                                            
     that  revenue.  Only  15-20%  of  the  oil money  goes  to  the                                                            
     Permanent Fund. With  the rest going into the General Fund, the                                                            
     state has been fiscally unstable for years.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     But  the state  can stabilize  the flow  of that  oil money  by                                                            
     routing  it  through the  Permanent  Fund. Income  produced  by                                                            
     investment  would be much more  sustainable than the  oil money                                                            
     itself.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     There  is a  proposed  constitutional  amendment,  not on  your                                                            
     plate, that  would put all of the oil money into  the Permanent                                                            
     Fund  and cure  the other  defects of  Section  15 as well.  It                                                            
     would provide you  with a new and simple system for funding the                                                            
     government.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
[NOTE: Mr. Cremo's proposed amendment and transitional language                                                                 
regarding the Alaska Permanent Fund read as follows.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     ARTICLE IX, SECTION 15 - ALASKA PERMANENT FUND.                                                                            
     (a) The money derived  by the state (A) from the disposition of                                                            
     minerals  and land by  the state or the  United States  and (B)                                                            
     from   taxation   of   (1)  production,    transportation   and                                                            
     reservation  of minerals, (2)  property used in exploring  for,                                                            
     producing  and  transporting   minerals  and  (3)  income  from                                                            
     production and transportation  of minerals shall constitute the                                                            
     Alaska Permanent Fund.                                                                                                     
     (b)  Money in the fund  shall be invested  and reinvested,  for                                                            
     income  and capital  gains,  in accordance  with restrictions,                                                             
     prescribed  by law, that emphasize  preservation of  the fund's                                                            
     assets.  No  investment  shall  be  made  in  the obligations,                                                             
     properties and enterprises of the state.                                                                                   
     (c) No  money, or other asset,  shall be removed from  the fund                                                            
     except,  in  order  to  provide   the  state  with  revenue,  a                                                            
     noncumulative  amount of money  that in a fiscal year  does not                                                            
     exceed 4.30  percent of the average market value  of the fund's                                                            
     net assets  at the end of each  of the six full calendar  years                                                            
     immediately  preceding that fiscal year. The  revenue shall not                                                            
     be dedicated to any special purpose.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     ARTICLE XV, SECTION 30 - ALASKA PERMANENT FUND (TRANSITION)                                                                
     (a)  The  percentage  prescribed  in Article  IX,  Section  15,                                                            
     amended in  2004, for determining the amount  of money that can                                                            
     be  removed from  the Alaska  Permanent Fund,  shall not  apply                                                            
     until  fiscal year  2016. the  applicable  percentage shall  be                                                            
     9.36  percent in  fiscal year  2006 and,  in each intermediate                                                             
     fiscal  year, 0.9257  times the percentage  in the immediately                                                             
     preceding fiscal year.                                                                                                     
     (b)  The assets  of  the Alaska  Permanent  Fund  prior to  the                                                            
     effective  date of the amendment of Article IX,  Section 15, in                                                            
     2004, are assets of the fund after the amendment.                                                                          
     (c) The  amendment of Article  IX, Section 15 in 2004  and this                                                            
     section shall be effective July 1, 2005.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo continued his comments.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The  revenue  from the  fund, supplemented  with  revenue  from                                                            
     conventional sources  in whatever amount you consider adequate,                                                            
     would go into the  General Fund. It would fund government in an                                                            
     orderly fashion.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     The constitutional  provision  wouldn't dictate to you  how the                                                            
     revenue  is  to  be  spent.   You  would  allocate  it  to  all                                                            
     governmental  services,  including the  one we call  dividends,                                                            
     according to the priority you assign them.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo discussed his proposed amendment as follows.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     At the  start of a ten-year transition  the rate of  withdrawal                                                            
     for the Permanent  Fund, which would use the POMV method, would                                                            
     be  high enough  to provide  revenue that,  when combines  with                                                            
     conventional  revenue,  would  fund  spending  at  the  current                                                            
     level.   During  the   transition  the   rate  would   decrease                                                            
     gradually.   At  the  end  of  transition  it  would  be  at  a                                                            
     sustainable level.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     There is also a proposed  constitutional amendment, not on your                                                            
     plate, of Section 17 of Article 9.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
[NOTE: Mr. Cremo's proposed amendment regarding the Budget Reserve                                                              
Fund and an accompanying amendment that would provide the                                                                       
transitional language read as follows.]                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     ARTICLE IX, SECTION 17 - BUDGET RESERVE FUND                                                                               
     (a)  The  money  deposited  into  it  in  accordance  with  (c)                                                            
     constitutes the Budget Reserve Fund.                                                                                       
     (b)  Money in the fund  shall be invested  and reinvested,  for                                                            
     income,  in accordance  with restrictions,  prescribed  by law,                                                            
     that  emphasize the  liquidity and preservation  of the  fund's                                                            
     assets.   No  investment   shall   be  made   in  obligations,                                                             
     properties, and enterprises of the state.                                                                                  
     (c)  The   amount  by  which   money  actually  available   for                                                            
     appropriation  in a fiscal year  exceeds, or is less  than, the                                                            
     amount  appropriated for that  year shall, correspondingly,  be                                                            
     deposited into or withdrawn from the fund.                                                                                 
     (d) Money  in any amount may be appropriated  directly from the                                                            
     fund for meeting natural disasters.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     ARTICLE XV, SECTION 31 - BUDGET RESERVE FUND (TRANSITION)                                                                  
     (a)  The assets  and  liabilities of  the budget  reserve  fund                                                            
     (Article  IX, Section 17) that  are in excess of three  hundred                                                            
     million dollars  in value, if any, shall be transferred  to the                                                            
     Alaska  Permanent  Fund    (Article  IX,  Section  15)  on  the                                                            
     effective date of this section.                                                                                            
     (b)  The  assets  of  the Budget  Reserve  Fund  prior  to  the                                                            
     effective  date of the amendment of Article IX,  Section 17, in                                                            
     2004, except  those assets transferred to the  Alaska Permanent                                                            
     Fund in accordance  with (a), are assets of the  fund after the                                                            
     amendment.                                                                                                                 
     (c) This section shall be effective July 1, 2005.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo's testimony continued.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     That  section  created   the  Budget  Reserve  Fund.  It  would                                                            
     transfer  the bulk of the assets of that fund  to the Permanent                                                            
     Fund.  The amount  retained would  be used  for funding  actual                                                            
     deficits  and, incidentally,  meeting natural disasters.  Thus,                                                            
     it could  not be used to bridge  projected fiscal gaps.  And it                                                            
     would   not  be  used  for  inter-fund   "borrowing".   Revenue                                                            
     anticipation financing would be available for that.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     I've told you what  I think is wrong with Section 15 of Article                                                            
     9 of our  constitution. And I've  told you what I think  should                                                            
     be done about it.  But I'm not naïve enough to suggest that you                                                            
     do it now.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     I am suggesting, however, that you refrain from making any                                                                 
     changes in Section 15 until the time comes that it can be done                                                             
     right.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The people  aren't in the mood to touch Section  15 except with                                                            
     respect to  dividends. But that mood could change  if you mount                                                            
     a  massive campaign  to tell  them the unspun  FACTS about  the                                                            
     state's fiscal condition                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken thanked Mr.  Cremo for the  efforts exerted  in the                                                            
development of his remarks.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson also voiced  appreciation for Mr. Cremo's comments. He                                                            
voiced concern  that the  Legislator might  look back in fifteen  or                                                            
eighteen  years and wish  that they had paid  attention to  what Mr.                                                            
Cremo  had  recommended.   He  was  disappointed  that   the  public                                                            
officials  who had  supported  Mr. Cremo's  remarks  were  viciously                                                            
attacked the  next election cycle  by some "demigods" and  defeated.                                                            
The acquisition  was that following  Mr. Cremo's counsel  was a raid                                                            
on the dividend.  This was a very unfortunate distortion  of what he                                                            
considered  Mr.  Cremo to  be  saying. Furthermore,  he  recalled  a                                                            
conversation in which it  was discussed that were some of the budget                                                            
restraints proposed  by Mr. Cremo adopted, the Permanent  Fund might                                                            
be  valued at  an  $80 billion  to  $100 billion  level.  Mr.  Cremo                                                            
commented  that, were his  recommendations  followed, the  endowment                                                            
fund might have approached similar magnitude.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo agreed  that, according  to calculations he had  conducted                                                            
in the middle 1990s, had  his proposal been adopted when North Slope                                                            
oil  began  to  flow   into  the  Alaska  Pipeline   the  Fund  "was                                                            
approaching  $100 billion  dollars."  He wondered  what it would  be                                                            
today  were  these  calculation  conducted.   Five-percent  of  $100                                                            
billion is a lot of money.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson agreed.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde thanked Mr.  Cremo. He stated that currently, oil pays                                                            
approximately  70 to 80-percent  of the  State's operating  expenses                                                            
and  other taxes  contribute  20  to 30-percent.  Were  Mr.  Cremo's                                                            
proposal enacted  with the Fund's current balance,  70 to 80-percent                                                            
of the State's  funding would be generated from taxes  and 20 to 30-                                                            
percent would  be derived from the  earnings of the Permanent  Fund.                                                            
He asked  whether  this would  be an  unfair interpretation  of  the                                                            
scenario.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo  stated  that this  is incorrect.  Going  forward, a  9.36                                                            
percent  withdrawal  of money  from the  Fund would  be required  to                                                            
support  a flat  General  Fund State  budget.  In the  year 2006,  a                                                            
relatively  small amount of conventional  funding would be  required                                                            
to  be combined  with  the  Fund amount.  He  stated that  he  could                                                            
provide a spreadsheet depicting the formula.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  understood that the 9.36 percent withdrawal  of funds                                                            
would be a  temporary level, as withdrawal  of that amount  of money                                                            
could not be sustained.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo concurred. He  reiterated that his amendment would provide                                                            
for  a  ten-year  transition  period   in  which  the  9.36  percent                                                            
withdrawal  would, over  time, lower  to four-percent.  "The rub  is                                                            
that  during that  time,  as the  fiscal  gap grows,  the  dividends                                                            
grow." In the beginning,  there would be a substantial affect on the                                                            
dividends,  but,   over  time,  their  amount  would   increase.  He                                                            
suggested  that  the  dividend  program  be  considered  a  separate                                                            
program. The legislature would need to make that determination.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde stated that  he is inundated with comments from people                                                            
stating that they want their PFD to continue untouched.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo stated that upon  cross-examination, these positions would                                                            
change.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  stated that over-time the funding generated  from the                                                            
Permanent  Fund  to  support  State  government  would  increase  to                                                            
approximately 50-percent.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo stated  that the proposal  does not dictate how  the money                                                            
would be expended. It is only a funding mechanism.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  stated that  were only four-percent  of the  earnings                                                            
available,  rather  than  the  five-percent  payout  that  would  be                                                            
available  through POMV,  the amount would  equate to approximately                                                             
$600 million.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Cremo   stated  that  in  ten   years,  the  amount   would  be                                                            
substantially more.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde asked  for further  discussion  regarding the  faults                                                            
with the POMV proposal as earlier referenced by Mr. Cremo.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo stated  that rather than utilizing a five-year  average, a                                                            
six  or seven  year cycle  would  be more  in line  with  investment                                                            
cycles.  In addition,  the proposed  five-percent  payout must  jive                                                            
with  the investment  objective,   and a  public  endowment,  unlike                                                            
private  endowments,  "has  to  preserve  the  Fund."  There  is  no                                                            
investment   objective  currently   required   in  Section   15.  He                                                            
understood that  the target should conservatively  be 7.5 percent. A                                                            
three-percent  rate of inflation factor  would therefore,  provide a                                                            
4.5  percent  "real rate  of  return." That  is  the extent  of  the                                                            
Permanent  Fund  Corporation's  reasoning  in  regard  to  the  POMV                                                            
proposal. However,  the real rate  of return does not equate  to the                                                            
rate  of withdrawal,  as it  must  be lower  than the  real rate  of                                                            
return. He stated that  a study has been done that reflects that any                                                            
fund  that  withdraws five  percent  "would  eventually  erode."  He                                                            
reviewed the calculation formula for rates of withdrawal.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Cremo stated  that other fault  in the proposal would  be that a                                                            
fiscal year  rather than a calendar  year should be utilized  as the                                                            
calendar year terminates  just prior to the Legislature's convening.                                                            
Also missing  from the current proposed  Section 15 language  is the                                                            
distinction  between  cumulative  and non-cumulative   in that  five                                                            
percent be derived from  a four-percent withdrawal one year and six-                                                            
percent the next year.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken thanked Mr.  Cremo and other  testifiers for  their                                                            
participation.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
RECESS 04:15 PM / 08:30 PM                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[NOTE:  Due  to technical  difficulties,  the  adjournment  of  this                                                            
meeting was not recorded.]                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Gary Wilken adjourned the meeting at 8:30 PM.                                                                          

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